How To Avoid Making A "Mis-Hire"
Eben Pagan teaches how to build and manage virtual teams effectively, covering the trade-offs of remote work, compensation strategies based on ROI, and his proven hiring methodology. He introduces the concept of a 'virtual bench' and Brad Smart's tandem top grading interview technique for avoiding mis-hires.
Key Moments
How to conduct a tandem top grading interview -- A systematic approach to interviewing candidates using two interviewers to identify behavioral patterns
Budget Three Months for Meaningful Hire Onboarding
Accept training investment risk for significant hires - budget for 3 months of onboarding costs because meaningful players can't be productive in just a few days
▶ 7:28
Tandem Topgrading Interviews — One Questions While One Takes Notes
Use tandem top grading interviews where two people interview simultaneously - one asks questions while the other takes notes, allowing deeper focus on responses and pattern detection
▶ 3:55
Pay People Based on Their ROI to You
Pay people exactly what they're worth based on ROI calculation - if someone wants $100,000 but they're worth $1 million to you, do the math and pay them appropriately
▶ 1:58
Virtual Teams — Trade-Offs Between Talent Access and Communication
Virtual teams require accepting trade-offs: you lose human broadband communication and spontaneous interactions, but gain access to better talent at lower costs and clearer performance visibility
Tandem Interview — One Person Asks, One Takes Notes
It's an interview technique where two people interview one candidate simultaneously - one person asks questions while the other takes notes. This allows the questioner to focus on responses and probe deeper while ensuring detailed documentation.
Relevant Clips19
- How-To
How to conduct a tandem top grading interview -- A systematic approach to interviewing candidates using two interviewers to identify behavioral patterns
- Teaching
Tandem Interview — One Person Asks, One Takes Notes
It's an interview technique where two people interview one candidate simultaneously - one person asks questions while the other takes notes. This allows the questioner to focus on responses and probe deeper while ensuring detailed documentation.
- Teaching
Potential Value as the Frame for Opportunity
You lose human broadband communication including body language, spontaneous conversations, and the ability to quickly gather everyone for discussions. However, these trade-offs come with benefits like access to better talent.
- Teaching
The Opportunity Mindset Eben Pagan Teaches
Build relationships with potential hires over 3-6 months through conversations and small projects before making formal hiring decisions. This 'virtual bench' approach helps you really get to know candidates.
- Teaching
Virtual Teams — Trade-Offs Between Talent Access and Communication
Virtual teams require accepting trade-offs: you lose human broadband communication and spontaneous interactions, but gain access to better talent at lower costs and clearer performance visibility
- Teaching
Pay People Based on ROI Calculation Not Arbitrary Pay Scales
Pay people exactly what they're worth based on ROI calculation. If someone wants $100,000 but creates $1 million in value, do the math and pay accordingly rather than using arbitrary pay scales.
- Teaching
Use Small Paid Projects to Evaluate Candidates Before Hiring
Give them small paid projects during the relationship-building phase. For example, if they charge $25/hour, give them a 10-hour project for $250 to evaluate their work quality and delivery.
- Teaching▶ 3:55
Tandem Topgrading Interviews — One Questions While One Takes Notes
Use tandem top grading interviews where two people interview simultaneously - one asks questions while the other takes notes, allowing deeper focus on responses and pattern detection
- Teaching
Web Design Rates Range $10 to $100 per Hour by Value
Web design compensation varies drastically based on complexity and value - from $10/hour for simple tasks to $100/hour for important projects within the same business
- Teaching
Interview Tactic: Spot Recurring Job-Departure Patterns
Look for behavioral patterns throughout someone's entire work history during interviews - people often leave jobs for the same reasons repeatedly without realizing it
- Teaching▶ 1:58
Pay People Based on Their ROI to You
Pay people exactly what they're worth based on ROI calculation - if someone wants $100,000 but they're worth $1 million to you, do the math and pay them appropriately
- Teaching
Build a Virtual Bench With 3–6 Months of Osmosis
Build a 'virtual bench' through a 3-6 month osmosis process of getting to know potential hires through conversations and relationship building before formal hiring
Show 7 more
- Teaching
Test Potential Hires With a Paid 10-Hour Project
Test potential hires with small paid projects during the getting-to-know period - give them a 10-hour project at their hourly rate to evaluate their work quality
- Teaching▶ 7:28
Budget Three Months for Meaningful Hire Onboarding
Accept training investment risk for significant hires - budget for 3 months of onboarding costs because meaningful players can't be productive in just a few days
- Teaching
Hiring ROI Calculated as Risk-to-Reward Ratio
Calculate hiring ROI risk-to-reward ratios - willing to risk $12,000 in training costs for a 50% probability of generating an extra $50,000 monthly return
- Quotable▶ 8:30
All Business Comes Down to Return on Investment
it's all about the return on investment it all comes back to what's the ROI it's a business remember
- Quotable▶ 5:20
Job-Hoppers Who Never See Their Own Pattern
they won't realize that every time they left a job it was for the same reason and it was a bad one
- Quotable▶ 0:52
Some People Trade Income for Calling Their Own Shots
some people would rather make half the money and just call their own shots
- Quotable▶ 2:01
Pay Them Exactly What They're Worth
pay them what they're worth
Entities Touched
Concepts
Questions
Canonical Teachings
Procedural frameworks taught here
Expert: Brad Smart
Creator of tandem top grading interview methodology
Summary
The Trade-offs of Virtual Teams
Eben explains that virtual teams require accepting both losses and gains. While you lose human connection and spontaneous collaboration, you gain access to better talent who value flexibility and clearer visibility into actual results.
ROI-Based Compensation Strategy
Rather than using arbitrary pay scales, Eben teaches paying people exactly what they're worth based on mathematical calculation of their value to the business. He gives examples of web designers earning vastly different rates based on project complexity.
The Virtual Bench and Tandem Interview Process
Eben reveals his systematic hiring methodology including the 'virtual bench' concept of building relationships over 3-6 months and Brad Smart's tandem top grading interview technique for identifying behavioral patterns candidates don't realize exist.
Managing Training Investment Risk
For significant hires, Eben advises accepting 3-month training costs as necessary investment, calculating specific ROI ratios like risking $12,000 for a 50% chance of generating $50,000 monthly returns.
Counterpoint
Claim: “There should be standard pay scales for different types of positions like web designers”
Reframe: Pay people exactly what they're worth based on the value they create for your business, not arbitrary industry standards
Eben explains his company has web designers making $10/hour and others making $100/hour based on the complexity and value of their work
Claim: “Hire people quickly when you need them to fill positions”
Reframe: Build relationships with potential hires over 3-6 months through a 'virtual bench' process before making hiring decisions
Eben reveals their average hiring timeline is 3-6 months with lots of conversations and relationship building
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