Eben Pagan reveals why 75% of all hires are costly mistakes that can cost 20 times their annual salary, and shares proven techniques from Brad Smart's Top Grading methodology for identifying A-players. He explains how to build elite teams that accelerate business growth rather than drain resources.
Tips For Building A Team
Eben reveals the shocking truth that 75% of all hires are costly mistakes, with each mis-hire costing approximately 20 times their annual salary. He explains why most entrepreneurs underestimate the true damage of bad hiring decisions.
Learn why A-players don't just perform slightly better than average employees - they deliver twice the results and naturally grow into revenue-generating roles. Eben explains how to spot these top performers during the interview process.
Discover Brad Smart's proven methodology for identifying elite talent through comprehensive work history interviews. Learn the specific questions that reveal whether candidates are results-driven or excuse-makers.
Eben shares practical advice on when to hire, how to set realistic performance expectations, and why proactive recruiting beats desperate hiring. He emphasizes the importance of systems and standard operating procedures for long-term success.
“when someone is a mishire, as phenomenal as this is and as hard as it is to believe, they typically cost something like 20 times their annual salary when it's all said and done”
— Eben Pagan▶ 2:56
According to research, a mis-hire costs approximately 20 times their annual salary. So a $50,000 employee who doesn't work out will cost your business around $1 million when you factor in hiring time, poor performance, problems created, and cleanup costs.
“When I talk to your boss from that job and I ask them what your strengths and weaknesses were, what is that boss going to tell me?”
— Eben Pagan▶ 8:48
Ask candidates: 'When I talk to your boss from that job, what will they say about your strengths and weaknesses?' A-players maintain good relationships with former bosses and welcome reference checks, while C-players get nervous because they know their former bosses won't give good references.
“The worst time to hire someone is when you need them right now. The best time to hire someone is when you have plenty of time”
— Eben Pagan▶ 6:50
Start recruiting 3 months before you actually need someone. Look ahead at business growth, identify future hiring needs, then spend months talking to 1-2 candidates per week. The worst time to hire is when you need someone immediately.
“the a player is always figuring out how to pull success out of the jaws of defeat”
— Eben Pagan▶ 11:10
Conduct serial interviews covering their entire work history. A-players focus on delivering results despite obstacles ('we got creative and figured out how to get the job done'), while C-players make excuses ('my boss was dumb', 'the company cut corners').
“it's very important that you don't just hire people that you like or hire your friends or that kind of thing. This is really a great way to destroy a great business”
— Eben Pagan▶ 2:14
No, hiring friends and family is a great way to destroy a business. It creates weird relationship dynamics, makes performance management difficult, and often results in people who rely on you for employment rather than contributing to growth.
“Only expect other people to be 60 to 80% as good as you, and to get 60 to 80% as good results as you get”
— Eben Pagan▶ 11:56
Expect others to achieve 60-80% of your results, and consider this excellent performance. They won't be as good as you at what you're uniquely excellent at, but this level allows effective delegation and business growth.
A systematic approach to identifying A-players through comprehensive work history interviews
Serial Interview Setup
Ask candidates to go through all jobs they've ever had, one after another in chronological sequence
Comprehensive Job Analysis
For each position, ask about expectations, responsibilities, boss relationships, strengths, weaknesses, projects completed, and results achieved
Reference Reality Check
Ask the critical question: 'When I talk to your boss from that job, what will they say about your strengths and weaknesses?'
Pattern Recognition
Listen for patterns across 4-10 jobs - A-players focus on results despite obstacles, C-players make excuses blaming others
Relationship Verification
Confirm they maintain good relationships with former bosses and can provide immediate references
Mis-hires cost approximately 20 times their annual salary when accounting for lost productivity, training costs, damaged relationships, and cleanup efforts
Brad Smart's research in 'Top Grading' shows that 75% of all people hired are mis-hires, and each mis-hire costs 20 times their annual salary - meaning a $50,000 employee who doesn't work out costs the business $1 million
The first people you hire should take work off your plate so you can focus more time on products and marketing as the chief entrepreneur
Eben explains that as the head moneymaker, entrepreneurs need to delegate busy work to focus on higher-order challenges that make more money for the business
A-players maintain positive relationships with all their former bosses and can immediately provide references, while C-players avoid or fear reference checks
Brad Smart's technique: ask candidates 'When I talk to your boss from that job, what will they say about your strengths and weaknesses?' A-players welcome this, C-players get nervous and sometimes 'jump up and run out of the room'
Conduct serial interviews covering every job a candidate has ever had to identify patterns of excuses versus results-driven behavior
By asking about 4-10 previous jobs including expectations, responsibilities, boss relationships, strengths, weaknesses, and results, you spot patterns: C-players make excuses ('my boss was dumb', 'company cut corners'), A-players focus on delivering results despite obstacles
A-players are not just a little better than average - they perform twice as well and naturally grow into higher roles within the organization
When interviewing 10 people for a part-time customer service role, 1-2 will be significantly better. That star performer will not only excel at customer service but pick up additional skills, move into sales roles, and become a moneymaker for the business
C-players create job security by setting up 'black boxes' - systems that only they understand, making them difficult to remove
Example: hiring a C-player bookkeeper who sets up books 'in a way that's all screwed up that only they understand with some weird piece of software that only they can run,' creating dependency when it's time to let them go
The worst time to hire is when you need someone immediately; start recruiting 3 months ahead when you have time to properly evaluate candidates
Eben advises looking ahead and predicting hiring needs, then spending 3 months talking to 1-2 people per week to find your superstar rather than hiring out of desperation
Only expect other people to achieve 60-80% of your results, and accept this as excellent performance for delegation
Eben explains that others won't be as good as you at what you're uniquely excellent at, but if you can hire people who get 60-80% as good results, 'you're doing really well'
Mis-hires cost approximately 20 times their annual salary when accounting for lost productivity, training costs, damaged relationships, and cleanup efforts
▶ 2:56The first people you hire should take work off your plate so you can focus more time on products and marketing as the chief entrepreneur
▶ 1:13A-players maintain positive relationships with all their former bosses and can immediately provide references, while C-players avoid or fear reference checks
▶ 8:48Conduct serial interviews covering every job a candidate has ever had to identify patterns of excuses versus results-driven behavior
▶ 10:18A-players are not just a little better than average - they perform twice as well and naturally grow into higher roles within the organization
▶ 4:55C-players create job security by setting up 'black boxes' - systems that only they understand, making them difficult to remove
▶ 7:22The worst time to hire is when you need someone immediately; start recruiting 3 months ahead when you have time to properly evaluate candidates
▶ 6:50Only expect other people to achieve 60-80% of your results, and accept this as excellent performance for delegation
▶ 11:56Claim: “Hire anyone who applies when you need help right away”
Reframe: Only hire A-players after thorough evaluation, even if it takes months
Claim: “It's fine to hire friends and family for business roles”
Reframe: Hiring friends and family is a great way to destroy a business
Claim: “A bad hire just wastes a little time and money”
Reframe: Mis-hires cost 20 times their annual salary in total business damage
“when someone is a mishire, as phenomenal as this is and as hard as it is to believe, they typically cost something like 20 times their annual salary when it's all said and done”
“The worst time to hire someone is when you need them right now”
“the a player is always figuring out how to pull success out of the jaws of defeat”
“no great success or growth is possible without other people”
How To Avoid Making A "Mis-Hire"
Discover the hiring methodology that helped Eben Pagan build a multi-million dollar virtual business and avoid costly mis-hires.
How To Avoid Potential "Blind Spots" When Interviewing
The interview technique that reveals what traditional interviews miss — using your network to uncover candidate blind spots.
Who To Hire For Critical Roles In Your Business
Discover why hiring just one C-player can destroy your entire team's performance and how A-players multiply each other's power exponentially.
Eben Interviews Brad Smart Hiring
Discover why the average bad hire costs your company $1.5 million and learn the proven interview techniques that guarantee you'll identify A-players every time.
Learning Learn
Discover why traditional learning fails entrepreneurs and how to transform your brain into a self-building computer that adapts to any situation.
Power People
Why the team members you hire will either make or break your business—and the counterintuitive hiring strategy that built Eben's multi-million dollar company.
Coaching Strategies
Business Frameworks
Common Mistakes
Team up with another A-player in your company to conduct chronological interviews asking specific questions about past successes and future plans to identify high performers
Brad Smart's top grading interview guide methodology, which involves two A-players interviewing finalists together using chronological questions to discern patterns that reveal relevant competencies
A players naturally gravitate toward other A players and challenging situations, while C players avoid discomfort and prefer hanging out with other low performers
Brad Smart's observation from working with companies including a former secretary of the treasury who confirmed that senior executives tend to ignore mishires, and documented patterns of C players undermining A players
Real learning only occurs when behavior changes - you must create a feedback loop between knowledge, application, and adjustment
Eben Pagan references Gregory Bateson's research through Wyatt Woodsmall showing learning requires: get an idea/model, try it in the world, see how it works, change your knowledge, try something else, repeat
Your brain literally builds itself through learning, adding more processing power, memory, and connections like a self-upgrading computer
Eben Pagan explains the brain's neuroplasticity as co-evolution between brain structure and thinking experiences, where learning physically changes neural architecture
